Historian Geoff Roberts reveals how propaganda, ignored diplomacy, and Western hubris fueled the Ukraine War—and why neutrality remains the only way out.
It amazes me how many western pundits claim to know the mind of Putin having never met him, listened to him or even given him a chance to speak. Once peace prevails and Russias terms have been met what happens in Western Ukraine. I’d take a bet that Hungary, Romania and Poland would all like to get their territory back.
Yep, blinking Blinken is both a psychic and a mind reader. He has to be odds on favourite to be voted the worst Secretary of State this country has ever had to endure and, of course, a trained lawyer. As Shakespeare wrote “the first thing we do is, let’s kill all the lawyers”. Henry VI if memory serves.
I think both your views are correct. On the first one, as history rapidly proceeds and seems to accelerate, the more I see this as a general contemporary phenomenon in Western societies at the moment: the hegemonic elites and many ordinary people, even politically active ones, are being swept along by their wounded self-righteousness to ignore the other sides views - not even to listen or only listen selectively in order to merely confirm their prevailing beliefs.
With regard to your second point I think the Polish political elite very definitely has played a major, critical role in supporting and promoting this war for the very purpose you mention - the revanchist ambitions of a rising major regional power. Of course nobody admits this and they and try as hard as they can to conceal it under the pretence and pretext of concern for Ukraine's fate (ha, ha!) and fear-mongering about the alleged 'Russian threat' (ha, ha, ha!!). The Polish elite, like the German, French, British and Scandinavian one's, have weaponised latent Russophobia in their populations to serve their own ends. I have no doubt the elites know that they are lying to their people, to other Europeans and to the world - and to themselves - just like Merkel and Macron knew they were lying. Serious moral degeneracy right across the board.
As for Romania and Poland I think it's a bit different to Poland. They may both have revanchist hopes but they are not rising and major powers. Romania, so far, has played the loyal NATO member, presumably hoping to continue to benefit from that. Hungary's attititude is interesting because though it is a NATO and EU member it has taken the most neutral path on the war and even actively at times tried to hinder NATO's support for the proxy war. I can't be sure why Hungary's adopted this approach to the war, but perhaps it genuinely believes in neutrality and this conflict maybe triggers its own dark memories of what happens when war comes and it gets involved and is on the losing side. Nevertheless there may be a calculation that staying neutral possibly minimises the potential dangers of active NATO involvement and increases the possibility that Zakarpattia is given (back) to it as a reward by a grateful Russia.
I think there are several reasons for Hungarian reluctance to follow the leader. Russian natural gas is critical to their economy, it was also critical to other EU countries but the great and good in those countries decided to cut their own throats economically anyway. Hungary, like Poland, does not want Muslims on their territory and they are exactly right on that question. Hungary has complained to the EC about the treatment of ethnic Hungarians, or Magyars if you would prefer, by Ukraine including suppression of their language and system of worship, Rumania has voiced similar complaints.
What a pitty, that Finland isnt neutral at all any more and in Austria they are trying to dicuss " if it isnt out of time". Even at the memorial day of 80 years Second Republic Cristofer Clark ended his speech advicing us not to be morally neutral.
"Gerade heute mehren sich die Indizien, dass uns eine Entscheidung zwischen der pluralistischen, rechtsstaatlichen Demokratie und einer Reihe von autoritären Alternativen bevorsteht, von der „illiberalen Demokratie“ bis hin zur offenen Gewalt und Willkürherrschaft. In dieser existentiellen Frage sind wir – so hoffe ich – in diesem Saal alles andere als neutral."
Machiavelli was right: Political crimes start often with moral declarations.
It is worth keeping in mind that not all EU states agree with NATO's warmongering against Russia, nor are all NATO states Russophobic, far from it.
However not all EU states are in a position to express their opposition / disagreement, unlike Hungary and Slovakia - who can precisely because they are not in the eurozone and retain their currency. (For non European readers unaware of recent history inside EU-Europe, the ECB has shut down national banking systems overnight and kept them shut as punishment until supposedly sovereign countries reverse course and comply with EU policy.....and this is only one tool among many.) Greece and Cyprus are perfect examples, where from day 1 of the SMO 82% of the population 1) understood what led to Russia's decision to invade and 2) support Russia. This percentage has only increased. Furthermore historically and traditionally for 1200 years the Hellenes have been closely intertwined with Russia, and along with Serbia were the only 2 countries in Europe that genuinely resisted the nazis. Unfortunately Greece is triply occupied - by the ECB that issues its orders daily, by American bases/embassy and, as has been proven by subsequent events and to Greece's detriment, since 2015 by Israel - when the Americans forced a SOFA agreement with Israel on Greece. Thus ended overnight 70 years support for Palestine. In Cyprus case' it is occupied on one hand by the British, who claimed two bases as British sovereign territories (putting Cyprus in the ignominious position of being the country from which the US and UK deliver bombs to Israel, over which they have no control) and on the other by the Turkish military across the Green Line.
This is only ONE description of 2 EU countries dilemna. There are many more such examples inside the EU.
Best for Serbia Melissa, heartfelt. Vucic seems a real piece of work.
Am glad to report that the Greek ambassador and 24 MPs from the greek parliament are attending Victory Day in Moscow. Meanwhile there are V day events all over Athens, especially the Communist municipalities like mine - with fiery speeches against NATO, the CIA, UK, Israel and the US gov. At least Greece and Serbia and Cyprus haven't forgotten who defeated the fascists! (Though for now they seem to have defeated us......temporarily!)
European politicians don't read... except for messages from their leaders... It's better not to read... that would force them to think... and thinking doesn't maximize their privileges... which they could lose.
No matter the monopoly the west has in narrative control, information management and perception management fighting a country that is self sufficient and with a long military culture, they will find nothing beats guns, bullets and bombs. So no matter how they convince themselves of what they believe or convince others to believe, this will not create the reality on the ground.
The “Power of Propaganda”, western ‘MSM-style’ (especially cinematic) has reduced its (western public) ability to critically think increased its Historical ignorance. An insouciant audience has been the end (Hollywood) result.
No, we’re not wrong. Western propaganda is so much greater than our access to Russian perspectives- and we can’t trust the western mainstream media at all. But yes, good to always reflect on one’s perspective.
It amazes me how many western pundits claim to know the mind of Putin having never met him, listened to him or even given him a chance to speak. Once peace prevails and Russias terms have been met what happens in Western Ukraine. I’d take a bet that Hungary, Romania and Poland would all like to get their territory back.
And a slice for Slovakia.
Under the guide of "peace-keeping" will Stalin's gift to the Banderan people be returned.
My favorite is Blinken’s “Putin thought…” Really? :-)
Yep, blinking Blinken is both a psychic and a mind reader. He has to be odds on favourite to be voted the worst Secretary of State this country has ever had to endure and, of course, a trained lawyer. As Shakespeare wrote “the first thing we do is, let’s kill all the lawyers”. Henry VI if memory serves.
I think both your views are correct. On the first one, as history rapidly proceeds and seems to accelerate, the more I see this as a general contemporary phenomenon in Western societies at the moment: the hegemonic elites and many ordinary people, even politically active ones, are being swept along by their wounded self-righteousness to ignore the other sides views - not even to listen or only listen selectively in order to merely confirm their prevailing beliefs.
With regard to your second point I think the Polish political elite very definitely has played a major, critical role in supporting and promoting this war for the very purpose you mention - the revanchist ambitions of a rising major regional power. Of course nobody admits this and they and try as hard as they can to conceal it under the pretence and pretext of concern for Ukraine's fate (ha, ha!) and fear-mongering about the alleged 'Russian threat' (ha, ha, ha!!). The Polish elite, like the German, French, British and Scandinavian one's, have weaponised latent Russophobia in their populations to serve their own ends. I have no doubt the elites know that they are lying to their people, to other Europeans and to the world - and to themselves - just like Merkel and Macron knew they were lying. Serious moral degeneracy right across the board.
As for Romania and Poland I think it's a bit different to Poland. They may both have revanchist hopes but they are not rising and major powers. Romania, so far, has played the loyal NATO member, presumably hoping to continue to benefit from that. Hungary's attititude is interesting because though it is a NATO and EU member it has taken the most neutral path on the war and even actively at times tried to hinder NATO's support for the proxy war. I can't be sure why Hungary's adopted this approach to the war, but perhaps it genuinely believes in neutrality and this conflict maybe triggers its own dark memories of what happens when war comes and it gets involved and is on the losing side. Nevertheless there may be a calculation that staying neutral possibly minimises the potential dangers of active NATO involvement and increases the possibility that Zakarpattia is given (back) to it as a reward by a grateful Russia.
I think there are several reasons for Hungarian reluctance to follow the leader. Russian natural gas is critical to their economy, it was also critical to other EU countries but the great and good in those countries decided to cut their own throats economically anyway. Hungary, like Poland, does not want Muslims on their territory and they are exactly right on that question. Hungary has complained to the EC about the treatment of ethnic Hungarians, or Magyars if you would prefer, by Ukraine including suppression of their language and system of worship, Rumania has voiced similar complaints.
Excellent summary. Should be required reading for all western politicians.
And for those other westerners least likely to read it.
Thank you for this! You and Glenn Diesen and The Duran are my top three right now! Amazing work. Thank you from Sweden!
What a pitty, that Finland isnt neutral at all any more and in Austria they are trying to dicuss " if it isnt out of time". Even at the memorial day of 80 years Second Republic Cristofer Clark ended his speech advicing us not to be morally neutral.
"Gerade heute mehren sich die Indizien, dass uns eine Entscheidung zwischen der pluralistischen, rechtsstaatlichen Demokratie und einer Reihe von autoritären Alternativen bevorsteht, von der „illiberalen Demokratie“ bis hin zur offenen Gewalt und Willkürherrschaft. In dieser existentiellen Frage sind wir – so hoffe ich – in diesem Saal alles andere als neutral."
Machiavelli was right: Political crimes start often with moral declarations.
https://www.diepresse.com/19622954/festrede-von-historiker-christopher-clark-krise-unserer-zeit-passiert-nicht-nur-vor-unseren-augen-sondern-in-unseren-koepfen
It is worth keeping in mind that not all EU states agree with NATO's warmongering against Russia, nor are all NATO states Russophobic, far from it.
However not all EU states are in a position to express their opposition / disagreement, unlike Hungary and Slovakia - who can precisely because they are not in the eurozone and retain their currency. (For non European readers unaware of recent history inside EU-Europe, the ECB has shut down national banking systems overnight and kept them shut as punishment until supposedly sovereign countries reverse course and comply with EU policy.....and this is only one tool among many.) Greece and Cyprus are perfect examples, where from day 1 of the SMO 82% of the population 1) understood what led to Russia's decision to invade and 2) support Russia. This percentage has only increased. Furthermore historically and traditionally for 1200 years the Hellenes have been closely intertwined with Russia, and along with Serbia were the only 2 countries in Europe that genuinely resisted the nazis. Unfortunately Greece is triply occupied - by the ECB that issues its orders daily, by American bases/embassy and, as has been proven by subsequent events and to Greece's detriment, since 2015 by Israel - when the Americans forced a SOFA agreement with Israel on Greece. Thus ended overnight 70 years support for Palestine. In Cyprus case' it is occupied on one hand by the British, who claimed two bases as British sovereign territories (putting Cyprus in the ignominious position of being the country from which the US and UK deliver bombs to Israel, over which they have no control) and on the other by the Turkish military across the Green Line.
This is only ONE description of 2 EU countries dilemna. There are many more such examples inside the EU.
Thanks for the explanation.
I can imagine how the Greek people are suffering because of the EU.
I’m originally from Serbia and know how they suffered again and again and are being pushed and obliged to the EU-Orders.
Best for Greece
Best for Serbia Melissa, heartfelt. Vucic seems a real piece of work.
Am glad to report that the Greek ambassador and 24 MPs from the greek parliament are attending Victory Day in Moscow. Meanwhile there are V day events all over Athens, especially the Communist municipalities like mine - with fiery speeches against NATO, the CIA, UK, Israel and the US gov. At least Greece and Serbia and Cyprus haven't forgotten who defeated the fascists! (Though for now they seem to have defeated us......temporarily!)
Thanks Eleni,
I‘m so grateful to Greece, Cypress and of course people like you who are keeping the remembrance alive.
The Best.🤗🍀
European politicians don't read... except for messages from their leaders... It's better not to read... that would force them to think... and thinking doesn't maximize their privileges... which they could lose.
No matter the monopoly the west has in narrative control, information management and perception management fighting a country that is self sufficient and with a long military culture, they will find nothing beats guns, bullets and bombs. So no matter how they convince themselves of what they believe or convince others to believe, this will not create the reality on the ground.
The “Power of Propaganda”, western ‘MSM-style’ (especially cinematic) has reduced its (western public) ability to critically think increased its Historical ignorance. An insouciant audience has been the end (Hollywood) result.
Very well Said. 😊
As Primo Levi wrote, sooner or later in life we have come face to face with facts, and facts are pitiless and obstinate judges.
Fantastic post!
Exellent. Thank you so much.
Excellent article. I also refuse to choose between two fascists, namely Russia and USA.
Here is a peace proposal:
* USA abolishes NATO
* USA closes down all its ca 900 military bases around the world
* Russia withdraws the Red Army from Ukraina
* both USA and Russia pay war damages
* Ukraine is rebuilt as a demilitarized, non-capitalistic, fossil-free and extractivism-free zone
how did they skip Boris Johnson
No, we’re not wrong. Western propaganda is so much greater than our access to Russian perspectives- and we can’t trust the western mainstream media at all. But yes, good to always reflect on one’s perspective.
First paragraph is enough... disingenuous distortions and not worth reading.
Yep, they’re having their LAST drink ever.